Name:
An interview with Thomas Heathman, Ori Biotech
Description:
An interview with Thomas Heathman, Ori Biotech
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Duration:
T00H13M31S
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https://cadmoreoriginalmedia.blob.core.windows.net/11733d11-8492-4bca-b871-145fea335d96/Thomas Heathman - Interview - V1.mp4?sv=2019-02-02&sr=c&sig=K6EDEujI7LbMIBZLNcnRxY2cCsHuyLXbda%2BYcxtlQu0%3D&st=2024-05-08T22%3A54%3A46Z&se=2024-05-09T00%3A59%3A46Z&sp=r
Upload Date:
2022-06-29T00:00:00.0000000
Transcript:
Language: EN.
Segment:0 .
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SARAH REHMAN: We're here at ISCT 2022. And if we could begin by you introducing yourself, your career to date, so far, and what you're basically up to.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, of course. So yes, my name's Tom Heathman. I run the commercial operations for Ori Biotech. I've been with Ori about 18 months now, based in the US. And my role is really around establishing the commercial side of Ori, as we build towards commercial launch of our technologies. Prior to Ori, ran the North America region for a CDMO business, which was PCT and then was acquired by Hitachi, so it was really growing up in the challenges of cell and gene therapy manufacturing.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And prior to that, I grew up in the UK, did a PhD and engineering there. But, really, why I switched Ori was because, coming from the CDMO side, seeing what the challenges of manufacturing and trying to support customers, it's clear that the technology just doesn't exist to really scale these products and make them accessible to patients. And so, I decided, rather than being on the victim side of that, to move across to the solution side and work with Ori to build some of those technologies.
SARAH REHMAN: Interesting. Wow. How do you feel that, at Ori, you were able to really expand your scalability, while keeping everything standardized and-- yes, essentially, that.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, well, I think, if you look at manufacturing of cell and gene therapy, most of it's fluid handling, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Mm-hmm.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: It's moving fluid around a process, and those processes tend to be highly variable. So the challenge is how will you maintain flexibility in the process to accommodate the variation, to accommodate the different types of products and types of cells, but then do it in a way where you can start to standardize and automate these processes. And I think, yes, for us, one of the key features is it's not just about equipment in a manufacturing setting. It's actually about things like data platforms and other things that layer on top.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: So how can we start to harness the data that's coming out of manufacturing, understanding the variation, looking at what's happening in manufacturing versus what's happening on the patient side, and start to connect some of the dots? And I think, if we can start to make some of those connections, I think we'll start to see some incremental improvement. And then, at some point, we'll get to the point where they're actually accessible to people, rather than just good science.
SARAH REHMAN: Yes, interesting. Is there a particular way that you're tackling that data problem? I've seen there are a few companies that are digitizing a lot of their data or using AI tech solutions.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes. I think, C, all of the above. I think, for us, it's about how we get equipment that's physically, in manufacturing, touching product to connect in to the broader infrastructure around the data side. So you're looking at manufacturing data systems, like MES systems, LIMS systems, some of those. You have the Track & Trace software, so tracing the product from the patient through manufacturing and then all the way back to the patient.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And for us, it's about building tech that can start to talk to some of these systems. And if you can start to connect that data flow-up, then it's not like, well, OK, I need to know how many cells are in my bioreactor in the clean room. Or, I need to know what's going on? Today, you send a person into a clean room, and they'll take a look at that. Whereas, in the future, you shouldn't need to, right?
THOMAS HEATHMAN: It's not a black box. You can just remotely see what's going on. And then, once you have that data flowing up and we have a cloud platform where all that data is being stored, exactly as you say, then you can start to play machine learning, AI, and other things. It doesn't always need machine learning or AI, just basic analytical tools that you can use to then start tracking the process, do trending and capability analysis of, actually, what's going on.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And when you can do that, it becomes really interesting, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Yes.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Because maybe the variation does have some key themes that you can start to control over time versus saying, well, it's variable. It's a black box, and it's different every time. So, yes, that's the power of the data.
SARAH REHMAN: That's really interesting. And is that something that you could do internally at Ori, especially with your cloud platform? Or is that something that you need to have to outsource?
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, no, so we're building all of the cloud platforms. I think there's a lot of providers out there, you have groups at AWS who have a lot of the infrastructure that we can just plug into. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. And then, similarly, with analytical tools, there's lots of people that have really great analytical tools, that can do that. And then on the connection side, most of the groups-- on the electronic lab notebooks, there are groups like Benchling.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: On the MES side, groups like POMS. They have systems that you can interface through APIs. So it's not like we have to reinvent the wheel. It all exists. And most of this is pretty common for other industries. It's just we're catching up. So we can leverage a lot of that infrastructure to get there much quicker than if we built that, ourselves.
SARAH REHMAN: Yes. It's all about building really successful partnerships, essentially. [BACKGROUND CHATTER]
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, exactly. And it's a really good point because I think, for us, it's going to take an army to solve this problem. And we have innovation in what we're doing that drives that, but at the end of the day, we're not going to be a CDMO. We're not going to be a media provider, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Mm-hmm.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: There's a lot of these pieces that are critical to ensuring these products are safe and effective, they can scale, they're cost effective. But for us, it's about partnering with best-in-class organizations. And so we're partnering with groups like TrakCel and Vineti on the data side. And we're partnering with groups like GCON and Germfree, on the manufacturing infrastructure side, to really work with them and utilize the tech that they have to solve these problems because our goal is to enable patient access as soon as we possibly can.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And so it's about how we do that as quickly as possible.
SARAH REHMAN: Of course. Do you think that, with scalability, you're able to bring down costs? Or how are you dealing with the problem of really expensive therapies [LAUGHS] and also scaling that out to thousands and hundreds of thousands of people?
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes. And I think, like I said at the start, the challenge is how you maintain the flexibility whilst doing the standardization because there's a lot of automation technologies in cell therapy and other industries that apply to, here's a very standard workflow; how do you automate that? But it's not really the case for cell and gene therapy. And so, for us, we have flexibility in the physical platform of how we actually make the products that's tailored to each specific product, the specific needs.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: But then everything's been designed, from day one, so that it can interface with robotics. So from day one, we don't need-- if you're doing one patient at a time in a phase I trial, you don't need all this fancy robotics and automation, right? It just doesn't-- the cost of goods is going to be way higher. But then you need to use technologies that, in the future, once you get to thousands of doses in a single clean room, which is what we're looking to get towards, then at that point, you can start to do that, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Mm-hmm.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: You can then apply robotics. It makes sense to do that, to move consumables on and off the platform. Like I said, there's barcodes on everything, so the data platform starts to record all of that. And so, in terms of scale, it's a question of building from one instrument in a clean room all the way through to this high-throughput system. And we're really hopeful that we can do that. And we're working with partners, already, who are working with us to achieve that.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And I think there's a lot of interest around better tools and technologies. And, obviously, we want to be a part of, like I said, enabling patient access, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Yes.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: That's the goal.
SARAH REHMAN: Yes, very interesting. I know we've touched on a few different points, so far, but what do you feel is the greatest challenge, so far, for you, Ori, particularly, and the industry, as a whole?
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, I think we're still in this phase where every product is different. Everyone who's developing novel technology on the therapeutic side has a new platform. It's slightly different than the other version. And I think there's lots of different cell types. There's autologous. There's allogeneics. If you look at the scope of needs to solve, yes, there's probably thousands of different iterations of product types that are out there.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And the challenge for us and what we're really focused on is how we develop technologies in a way that can accommodate all of those needs. You're never going to meet 100% of all of them, but enough that you can start to then move the needle. And then where there's a need of, OK, products commercialized, now the volume is there to actually really invest directly in a single product. Then we can work with our partners to do that, if the time comes to do so.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: So I think that's one of the huge challenges. I think it's evolving. I think the way that we phrase internally is the scientific cases being proven, right? We have cures to cancer. But it's just now a case of how do we apply engineering that solves challenges like this in history. How do we apply that in a way that's actually going to solve this for cell and gene therapy?
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And I think it's the way we see it. It's like the Venn diagram of biology, engineering, and data, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Mm-hmm.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: So the intersection of those three, that's where the solution lies. And a lot of the work to date has been more biology-focused, or engineering-focused, or data-focused. And it's really about coming together in the middle of, yes, those three things.
SARAH REHMAN: So my last question was, where do you see the industry going within the next five years?
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, so we think what we're seeing now is there's more products being approved. There's products being approved for the same indication, which I think that's really good. Getting some competitive tension on two different products for the same indication, I think it's great for cell and gene therapy. We've seen that, particularly in cancer indications. And I think some of the more recent events of companies like Kite Gilead getting approval for first-line treatments then expands the patient pool massively, which I think, from a high level, is fantastic.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Then it comes back to the question of, today, we're struggling to meet the demand. We can't manufacture these products at cost, or quality, or scale that's required. And so I think there's going to be a much bigger impetus towards how do we actually solve the manufacturing challenges and how do we do that because at the end of the day, if we approve these products for first line and they cure cancer, right, they cure patients, how do we make sure that they get to every patient that needs them?
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And I think, over the next five or so years, we'll start to see companies-- Ori is, of course, one of them that's trying to solve that. But I think there's going to be many others that are coming together to solve that challenge. And I think, honestly, within 5 or 10 years, that will be the case. I think we will solve these challenges if we all come together, if we make these things happen.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: So I think that's where things are going to go. And I think it's, honestly, super exciting.
SARAH REHMAN: Yes, great. Yes, I've seen a running theme of collaboration being the key to really forwarding the whole industry.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes. I think, as well, we look a lot at the value chain for cell and gene therapy products because if you look at traditional pharma models around things like small molecules, the way that the value chain is set up is very specific. But if you look at cell and gene therapy, because there's a huge hospital component and some of these products are actually made near to the hospital site, it could actually change the economics around these products.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And if you speak to a lot of the hospital centers, many of which are here at the conference, they want to manufacture these products at their sites, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Yes.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: They don't want them centrally manufactured somewhere and distributed. I think it's going to be really interesting to understand how we make both models happen. How do we enable the hospitals to do the manufacturing they want to do for these products, but also look at the current centralized model that's more like the pharma approach, right, that we've seen from everyone? And I think, over the next few years, we're going to see that play out, as well, where it's going to be horses for courses, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Mm-hmm.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: It depends on the product. It depends on the needs of the patient. Some patients can't wait. Some patients can wait. And I think it's going to be really interesting to see how that plays out.
SARAH REHMAN: Interesting. My final question is, what are you most looking forward to here at ISCT today?
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, I think what I love about ISCT is the fact that it brings together the therapeutic companies. It brings together industry. It brings together tools providers and technology companies like Ori, but then it also brings together the academic groups and the academic medical centers in Europe and the US. And I think this is the community where we can actually have some of these discussions and flesh some of these problems out.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: And I think that's what I most look forward to, is sitting down, meeting with therapeutics developers, meeting with some of the hospital sites, meeting with th the CDMOs that are here, and understanding where are they heading, and what are they looking to achieve, and how can companies like Ori help them to do that. And I think it's, yes, great fun to do it. And some sunshine in San Francisco is always welcomed.
SARAH REHMAN: Yes, definitely.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, always welcome, so yes.
SARAH REHMAN: Definitely. I think it does make a huge difference, actually sitting down with someone face-to-face over-- rather than Zoom or something. [LAUGHS]
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes. Well, it's really funny you say that because, obviously, we're still in a mode of wearing masks, as well. So there are so many people I walk around. And I've probably spent more time with them than my family on the phone.
SARAH REHMAN: [LAUGHS]
THOMAS HEATHMAN: I actually have never met them in person, right?
SARAH REHMAN: Yes.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: It's weird. And you meet people in person for the first time. It's like, we've been working together for like two years. So I think I also enjoy that, right? It's like you say. It's the human interaction with people and having conversations that you can't have on Teams and Zoom, right? It just doesn't have the same benefit. Yes.
SARAH REHMAN: Definitely. Definitely. Well, yes, that's all my questions for today.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Cool.
SARAH REHMAN: If you have any take-home messages you want to say-- or, if not, we can wrap it up.
THOMAS HEATHMAN: Yes, no, I think, like I said, for us, as a company, we're driven to solving the challenge of patient access. And so we have cures to cancer that patients can't get access to. And as a company, we want to solve that. So our hope is that we can work with groups and people here to make that happen over the next 5 or 10 years, as you said.
SARAH REHMAN: Great. Thank you. [UPBEAT MUSIC]