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Product Development Case Study (Interview) – Bone & Joint Publishing
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Product Development Case Study (Interview) – Bone & Joint Publishing
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https://cadmoreoriginalmedia.blob.core.windows.net/9f722f1f-bb8c-45cf-914b-265cb8bae0ef/Soc St Tracy and Emma.mp4?sv=2019-02-02&sr=c&sig=kmBmu2p6k8%2BbRg6i7DKF048h41yCkkBkJfiT9X3qGxw%3D&st=2025-05-09T09%3A35%3A33Z&se=2025-05-09T11%3A40%3A33Z&sp=r
Upload Date:
2022-04-28T00:00:00.0000000
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Language: EN.
Segment:0 .
TRACY GARDNER: Hello. I'm here today with Emma Vodden. She's the director of publishing for Bone & Joint. We're just going to have a chat, really, about some of the things Bone & Joint Publishing has been doing in the product innovation area. So I'm Tracy Gardner. I'm from Renew Consultants, and I'm here with Emma, as I said. Emma, could I just ask you to introduce yourself, and just say a few bits about Bone & Joint Publishing, what kind of society you are, because I know you are not a society in the traditional sense.
EMMA VODDEN: Sure, well, yeah, I am Emma, and I'm director of publishing, as Tracy said. And I've been with the Society for 19 years. So I've been around long enough to see transition from paper to digital. So I'm feeling very old. And we are a society. We're a UK charity, but rather than having a membership or people who subscribe to us as a membership body, we are actually a publisher.
EMMA VODDEN: So our central aim is to educate orthopedic surgeons. And for many years, we did this just by publishing the Bone & Joint Journal, which it was just one journal for basically almost 70 years. And about 10 years ago, we diversified to include some other journal products which have been very successful. And now we're here at a kind of crossroads, looking to the future, knowing that open access is a big threat for us, and looking at what it is we need to do to evolve and survive long term.
TRACY GARDNER: So could you tell us a bit-- because I know you have a couple of products that you are developing that are in various stages-- could you tell us a little bit about what exactly you are doing? And then I think we can hopefully then move on and have a chat about what the process was, and why you're doing what you're doing, and who you are aiming it at. If you could just tell us a little bit about what you're doing, that would be really helpful, Emma.
EMMA VODDEN: So we've decided to try and leverage our position within the orthopedic community. We're very unique. We have one audience, and we're not a massive publisher. So we wanted to provide our community with something quite unique, whilst also hoping to develop it eventually into something that will bring in revenue. And we looked around to decide what it was we needed to do that would give the community the most help.
EMMA VODDEN: And we settled on a discovery tool. And we've been developing our own orthopedic taxonomy because the taxonomies that are out there for us weren't doing their job. They would go down to the anatomical position, hip or knee, but not to specific conditions, and to the greater detail that our community needs. So we realized that there wasn't one in existence, so we decided that that would be a great place to start to create the taxonomy so that we could get our data in order, that we could have all of our content, and make it more discoverable.
EMMA VODDEN: Part of that project was then developing our own search. And what we have actually done is created a tool that is indexing over 100 orthopedic journals and tagging the content. So we're taking the content from PubMed and applying our own taxonomy to it, and basically storing it within our database. We realized that we're never going to have the breadth of PubMed because, obviously, that's just not a realistic aim.
EMMA VODDEN: And we realized that we can never provide everything an orthopedic surgeon would need for a complete systematic literature review, which we saw as a massive challenge, and decided that we needed to really work on the USPs for this discovery tool outside of [INAUDIBLE] that the results would be relevant. PubMed matches on free text words. We've developed a tool that matches on concepts. So if you've got 30 pages of results in PubMed, probably after the first two or three, they're not very relevant.
EMMA VODDEN: For our tool, page 1 to page 30 would all be relevant because of the way it works. So we were looking around at what else we could bring in that would be unique. So we started indexing podcasts because podcast is something that's seeing a massive increase in use with our community. And in the wider world, people want to be able to listen to something when they've got that time.
EMMA VODDEN: And also, we've been looking at what content orthopedic surgeons go to regularly. What is it that they're looking at? And I've done loads of interviews with some of our closer friends. And standards was one of the biggest things that came out, so things like the NICE guidelines, which are very difficult to search. And we've brought them within our tool.
EMMA VODDEN: So when someone's searching on something, I don't know, like infection, they're going to be able to see the articles that relate to infection. They'll see the podcast. They'll see the standards. We've also tried to help signpost the content. So we've brought in Altmetric scores. So if the paper's got an Altmetric score, it's displayed on the search results.
EMMA VODDEN: And also, we're displaying the journal's impact factors, the cite scores so that we're really trying to add value and make it easier for someone to decide, actually, that's the paper I want to read. Or out of these two, this is in a better impact factor journal, so I'm going to go with that.
TRACY GARDNER: It's not just about showing the metadata. So it's not just about having a level where somebody searches something, and then they can see the entries. It's actually about adding value around that Metadata as well to help people make the selections, because I think sometimes what some discovery tools lack, actually, is the fact it's just a listing. And then you have to make decisions. So it sounds like what you're doing is actually helping your users make some informed decisions on the back of the tool, so enhancing-- it's about discovery, but it's about more than discovery, it sounds like you're saying.
EMMA VODDEN: It is, yeah. And I think what we've come to realize over the last year that we've been in development with this is our aim is not to be the only place they go, but it's to be the first place they go, because they want to be able to bring in all those extra pieces of information.
TRACY GARDNER: I think that's a really good point, actually, about it not being the only, because I think you're setting yourself a very high bar if you think that you are going to be the only place. But actually, wanting to be the first place, I think is a good place to start because you're not going to be the only place, and excepting that I think-- I suppose it's part of the process, isn't it, product development, is thinking, where are you sitting within the chain?
TRACY GARDNER: And what other tools are people going to be using at the same time?
EMMA VODDEN: Exactly. Yeah. And having interviews with the people that are actually carrying out the searches has been fantastic for discovering the types of content they're looking at, but also kind of through discussion with them, working out what we could do in the next phases of the product that would-- that they're the things, the extra added value that we'll be looking to charge for.
EMMA VODDEN: So this basic service will just be free to everybody. And you can find open access articles. So we're hoping to help those people that perhaps don't have funds for subscriptions, perhaps developing countries, et cetera, find our content more easily, pulling it all together for them.
TRACY GARDNER: So how did you-- so you say that there's about 100 journals from PubMed that you're looking at, and podcasts as well. How did you go about making decisions about what you're going to include in there?
EMMA VODDEN: So this is another thing that has come through the year of development. We were originally going to start with only the top 20 impact factor journals, because we were originally thinking that we just wanted to provide that branded, trusted content. But actually, it soon became clear that we needed to expand that massively. And we've actually developed a relevancy tool with our partners to go through content.
EMMA VODDEN: And so it's quite easy to find the core journals that are all orthopedic related. But often in orthopedics, and maybe in other medical specialties, some of the high impact trials will end up in really high impact factor journals, over 10 impact factor, like The Lancet or The New England Journal of Medicine. So we're using the relevancy tool to scan those journals as well to bring that content in, which we see as a real added value to our users.
EMMA VODDEN: So it's more about whether the content is relevant. So does it fit into the Taxonomy And if it does, we're including it. And we're going to work with the community after it's live as well to make sure that we're not missing something that they really feel should be in there. We see that as a real collaborative part of the product development.
TRACY GARDNER: And how about the podcast, because that's really interesting, actually, because I think we talk about podcasts quite a lot when we talk about product development, and actually adding value. We know that people are listening to podcasts more and more on their walks, while they're walking, whether in the car, and so on and so forth. So how did that come about? Because that's kind of an interesting addition to this, which is traditionally an article-focused discovery tool to expanding that out.
TRACY GARDNER: Did that come through the research you've been doing? Or how did that come about? Because I think that's quite an interesting addition there.
EMMA VODDEN: I'm quite passionate about podcasts, actually. And the podcast of Bone & Joint Journal, about 18 months or maybe two years ago now, that's been fantastically popular. It's really helped with Altmetric scores in our papers. It's helped with discoverability of our papers. And it's really made an impact for us in the marketplace.
TRACY GARDNER: So your own podcast that you've produced yourself?
EMMA VODDEN: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So for me, a podcast just was something we had to include because there are lots of good orthopedic related podcasts out there, but nowhere that you could search them particularly well. And obviously, within orthopedics, everyone's very specialized. We've got hip surgeons or knee surgeons. So sometimes they don't want to listen to something on-- a podcast about the hand.
EMMA VODDEN: They want what they want, and they want to get it easily. So yeah, it was almost just a no-brainer. It was the next part. The content, it was on the original spec with articles, podcast.
TRACY GARDNER: Right. And I think you're right. I think there's a real challenge in discovery of that other additional content. I mean, I think video content is the same. There is a challenge of discovering them. How far, do you think, from the original concept have you moved? I mean, how much has it had to develop, as you've done your research, and as you've had to change things as you've gone along?
TRACY GARDNER: Or do you think you've stayed pretty true to what you originally wanted to do?
EMMA VODDEN: I think, at the central core, we stayed really true to what we wanted to do. However, it just expanded to become more. We see that there's so much more we can do. And it's all exciting. Working with other types of content we can bring into the tool is fairly exciting. And there's so many avenues we could take it down, and so many different value-adds we can add to the product, which is what we're looking at now.
EMMA VODDEN: That's firmly phase two. We've got a list of ideas. We're ready to move on to that phase. And we're very close to launching the discovery tool. So we're quite confident!
TRACY GARDNER: So as far as what's going to be next, actually, is there anything any of us can look at right now? Or is it watch this space for a while.
EMMA VODDEN: It's watch this space. Hopefully, within the next six weeks, or so-- I mean, as I mentioned, the challenge is getting that search right. And I don't want to put something out there that people just go, oh, this is just rubbish. So it's just tweaking that.
TRACY GARDNER: Well, we'd like to see it as soon as it's there. If you put it out there and we'll come and see it. I think that's probably all of the questions that I had, Emma, unless there's anything else that you think that you'd like to share with people that I haven't asked you about or we haven't talked about.
EMMA VODDEN: No, I'm fine. Thank you. That's great. Lovely to talk to you.
TRACY GARDNER: Yeah, and you. Thanks ever so much for your time, lots of interesting stuff going on. And I think, actually, just one final word is that I think the process that you've gone through, I think it's really important, isn't it, to keep going back to your community? So having the initial idea, doing the research, and then keep checking with your community of people.
Segment:0 .
TRACY GARDNER: Hello. I'm here today with Emma Vodden. She's the director of publishing for Bone & Joint. We're just going to have a chat, really, about some of the things Bone & Joint Publishing has been doing in the product innovation area. So I'm Tracy Gardner. I'm from Renew Consultants, and I'm here with Emma, as I said. Emma, could I just ask you to introduce yourself, and just say a few bits about Bone & Joint Publishing, what kind of society you are, because I know you are not a society in the traditional sense.
EMMA VODDEN: Sure, well, yeah, I am Emma, and I'm director of publishing, as Tracy said. And I've been with the Society for 19 years. So I've been around long enough to see transition from paper to digital. So I'm feeling very old. And we are a society. We're a UK charity, but rather than having a membership or people who subscribe to us as a membership body, we are actually a publisher.
EMMA VODDEN: So our central aim is to educate orthopedic surgeons. And for many years, we did this just by publishing the Bone & Joint Journal, which it was just one journal for basically almost 70 years. And about 10 years ago, we diversified to include some other journal products which have been very successful. And now we're here at a kind of crossroads, looking to the future, knowing that open access is a big threat for us, and looking at what it is we need to do to evolve and survive long term.
TRACY GARDNER: So could you tell us a bit-- because I know you have a couple of products that you are developing that are in various stages-- could you tell us a little bit about what exactly you are doing? And then I think we can hopefully then move on and have a chat about what the process was, and why you're doing what you're doing, and who you are aiming it at. If you could just tell us a little bit about what you're doing, that would be really helpful, Emma.
EMMA VODDEN: So we've decided to try and leverage our position within the orthopedic community. We're very unique. We have one audience, and we're not a massive publisher. So we wanted to provide our community with something quite unique, whilst also hoping to develop it eventually into something that will bring in revenue. And we looked around to decide what it was we needed to do that would give the community the most help.
EMMA VODDEN: And we settled on a discovery tool. And we've been developing our own orthopedic taxonomy because the taxonomies that are out there for us weren't doing their job. They would go down to the anatomical position, hip or knee, but not to specific conditions, and to the greater detail that our community needs. So we realized that there wasn't one in existence, so we decided that that would be a great place to start to create the taxonomy so that we could get our data in order, that we could have all of our content, and make it more discoverable.
EMMA VODDEN: Part of that project was then developing our own search. And what we have actually done is created a tool that is indexing over 100 orthopedic journals and tagging the content. So we're taking the content from PubMed and applying our own taxonomy to it, and basically storing it within our database. We realized that we're never going to have the breadth of PubMed because, obviously, that's just not a realistic aim.
EMMA VODDEN: And we realized that we can never provide everything an orthopedic surgeon would need for a complete systematic literature review, which we saw as a massive challenge, and decided that we needed to really work on the USPs for this discovery tool outside of [INAUDIBLE] that the results would be relevant. PubMed matches on free text words. We've developed a tool that matches on concepts. So if you've got 30 pages of results in PubMed, probably after the first two or three, they're not very relevant.
EMMA VODDEN: For our tool, page 1 to page 30 would all be relevant because of the way it works. So we were looking around at what else we could bring in that would be unique. So we started indexing podcasts because podcast is something that's seeing a massive increase in use with our community. And in the wider world, people want to be able to listen to something when they've got that time.
EMMA VODDEN: And also, we've been looking at what content orthopedic surgeons go to regularly. What is it that they're looking at? And I've done loads of interviews with some of our closer friends. And standards was one of the biggest things that came out, so things like the NICE guidelines, which are very difficult to search. And we've brought them within our tool.
EMMA VODDEN: So when someone's searching on something, I don't know, like infection, they're going to be able to see the articles that relate to infection. They'll see the podcast. They'll see the standards. We've also tried to help signpost the content. So we've brought in Altmetric scores. So if the paper's got an Altmetric score, it's displayed on the search results.
EMMA VODDEN: And also, we're displaying the journal's impact factors, the cite scores so that we're really trying to add value and make it easier for someone to decide, actually, that's the paper I want to read. Or out of these two, this is in a better impact factor journal, so I'm going to go with that.
TRACY GARDNER: It's not just about showing the metadata. So it's not just about having a level where somebody searches something, and then they can see the entries. It's actually about adding value around that Metadata as well to help people make the selections, because I think sometimes what some discovery tools lack, actually, is the fact it's just a listing. And then you have to make decisions. So it sounds like what you're doing is actually helping your users make some informed decisions on the back of the tool, so enhancing-- it's about discovery, but it's about more than discovery, it sounds like you're saying.
EMMA VODDEN: It is, yeah. And I think what we've come to realize over the last year that we've been in development with this is our aim is not to be the only place they go, but it's to be the first place they go, because they want to be able to bring in all those extra pieces of information.
TRACY GARDNER: I think that's a really good point, actually, about it not being the only, because I think you're setting yourself a very high bar if you think that you are going to be the only place. But actually, wanting to be the first place, I think is a good place to start because you're not going to be the only place, and excepting that I think-- I suppose it's part of the process, isn't it, product development, is thinking, where are you sitting within the chain?
TRACY GARDNER: And what other tools are people going to be using at the same time?
EMMA VODDEN: Exactly. Yeah. And having interviews with the people that are actually carrying out the searches has been fantastic for discovering the types of content they're looking at, but also kind of through discussion with them, working out what we could do in the next phases of the product that would-- that they're the things, the extra added value that we'll be looking to charge for.
EMMA VODDEN: So this basic service will just be free to everybody. And you can find open access articles. So we're hoping to help those people that perhaps don't have funds for subscriptions, perhaps developing countries, et cetera, find our content more easily, pulling it all together for them.
TRACY GARDNER: So how did you-- so you say that there's about 100 journals from PubMed that you're looking at, and podcasts as well. How did you go about making decisions about what you're going to include in there?
EMMA VODDEN: So this is another thing that has come through the year of development. We were originally going to start with only the top 20 impact factor journals, because we were originally thinking that we just wanted to provide that branded, trusted content. But actually, it soon became clear that we needed to expand that massively. And we've actually developed a relevancy tool with our partners to go through content.
EMMA VODDEN: And so it's quite easy to find the core journals that are all orthopedic related. But often in orthopedics, and maybe in other medical specialties, some of the high impact trials will end up in really high impact factor journals, over 10 impact factor, like The Lancet or The New England Journal of Medicine. So we're using the relevancy tool to scan those journals as well to bring that content in, which we see as a real added value to our users.
EMMA VODDEN: So it's more about whether the content is relevant. So does it fit into the Taxonomy And if it does, we're including it. And we're going to work with the community after it's live as well to make sure that we're not missing something that they really feel should be in there. We see that as a real collaborative part of the product development.
TRACY GARDNER: And how about the podcast, because that's really interesting, actually, because I think we talk about podcasts quite a lot when we talk about product development, and actually adding value. We know that people are listening to podcasts more and more on their walks, while they're walking, whether in the car, and so on and so forth. So how did that come about? Because that's kind of an interesting addition to this, which is traditionally an article-focused discovery tool to expanding that out.
TRACY GARDNER: Did that come through the research you've been doing? Or how did that come about? Because I think that's quite an interesting addition there.
EMMA VODDEN: I'm quite passionate about podcasts, actually. And the podcast of Bone & Joint Journal, about 18 months or maybe two years ago now, that's been fantastically popular. It's really helped with Altmetric scores in our papers. It's helped with discoverability of our papers. And it's really made an impact for us in the marketplace.
TRACY GARDNER: So your own podcast that you've produced yourself?
EMMA VODDEN: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So for me, a podcast just was something we had to include because there are lots of good orthopedic related podcasts out there, but nowhere that you could search them particularly well. And obviously, within orthopedics, everyone's very specialized. We've got hip surgeons or knee surgeons. So sometimes they don't want to listen to something on-- a podcast about the hand.
EMMA VODDEN: They want what they want, and they want to get it easily. So yeah, it was almost just a no-brainer. It was the next part. The content, it was on the original spec with articles, podcast.
TRACY GARDNER: Right. And I think you're right. I think there's a real challenge in discovery of that other additional content. I mean, I think video content is the same. There is a challenge of discovering them. How far, do you think, from the original concept have you moved? I mean, how much has it had to develop, as you've done your research, and as you've had to change things as you've gone along?
TRACY GARDNER: Or do you think you've stayed pretty true to what you originally wanted to do?
EMMA VODDEN: I think, at the central core, we stayed really true to what we wanted to do. However, it just expanded to become more. We see that there's so much more we can do. And it's all exciting. Working with other types of content we can bring into the tool is fairly exciting. And there's so many avenues we could take it down, and so many different value-adds we can add to the product, which is what we're looking at now.
EMMA VODDEN: That's firmly phase two. We've got a list of ideas. We're ready to move on to that phase. And we're very close to launching the discovery tool. So we're quite confident!
TRACY GARDNER: So as far as what's going to be next, actually, is there anything any of us can look at right now? Or is it watch this space for a while.
EMMA VODDEN: It's watch this space. Hopefully, within the next six weeks, or so-- I mean, as I mentioned, the challenge is getting that search right. And I don't want to put something out there that people just go, oh, this is just rubbish. So it's just tweaking that.
TRACY GARDNER: Well, we'd like to see it as soon as it's there. If you put it out there and we'll come and see it. I think that's probably all of the questions that I had, Emma, unless there's anything else that you think that you'd like to share with people that I haven't asked you about or we haven't talked about.
EMMA VODDEN: No, I'm fine. Thank you. That's great. Lovely to talk to you.
TRACY GARDNER: Yeah, and you. Thanks ever so much for your time, lots of interesting stuff going on. And I think, actually, just one final word is that I think the process that you've gone through, I think it's really important, isn't it, to keep going back to your community? So having the initial idea, doing the research, and then keep checking with your community of people.
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