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Discussion 1: An Introduction to NISO
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Discussion 1: An Introduction to NISO
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2021-08-23T00:00:00.0000000
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Language: EN.
Segment:0 .
All right, that's a good group of people coming over. I hope you all enjoyed that introduction tonight. So thank you, Nettie, for taking the time leading us through. And I should publicly and acknowledge to tonetti that I, I. Unfortunately, bumped to her sooner than we had planned in that presentation, so.
Of we certainly welcome any comments, questions, any conversation topics, anything that wasn't clear. There was a question that came in during the session. And I'm going to use it to. Kind of take a couple different angles on. Addressing the topic, so someone and I posted this in the chat, someone commented about the proliferation of remote access and how deep linking is or isn't adopted or implemented by publishers and service providers are.
So researchers will go, they'll find they'll search for content, they'll find the right content that they're interested in those save the link, sign in, et cetera, but that link might not get them to the specific content page that they've requested. And when they have to go back to it, they have to kind of navigate through that whole process again.
There are a couple of things at work here, and I'm going to touch on a few of them as potential areas where standardization can apply and. Part of this, you know, obviously there is the know, let's link and save to a particular page, whatever, in a process that is. So you might be using a bookmarking software or a citation management software.
That's one set of standards. Another set of standards related to this is the metadata and the requirements that publishers and particularly crossroads, have developed about resolution. So it is cross ref's recommendation that you not link directly to the DUI should not resolve specifically to the PDF, it should resolve to a landing page that could have the full text, but it shouldn't resolve to file a PDF file, which will start downloading automatically.
It should provide a landing page where people can choose to download that file. So part of that is the establishment of the appropriate metadata, part of that problem is the implementation of that. So there are many aspects at work here, right? So the third element of this is the adoption question, right?
So having good quality structure, the structure of the identifier, the structure of the metadata that can be standardized for data that has been, you can then overlay business practices, recommended practices about what that metadata should include and cross in this particular case, Congress has done that. And then the third element of this change is the adoption of that best practice, which is.
NISO does all of those things right, we create the specification, we work with the community to define that specification. We also work with the community to define best practices. So, for example, we have the Jets standard. We also have Jets for our Jets for reuse, which are, you know, not necessarily. This is what the tag is. But you could use the tags in a variety of different ways.
And here's the best way to do so. And we have that set up as a recommended practice. And then finally, that issue is getting people to adopt it, getting people to apply it, and this is in part something that we can do through education, but it's also something that we need the community to do as well, to say, hey, there is a standard there is instructions on how to use the standard.
Are you doing it properly? Let's point people to those best practices, because to be perfectly honest, a vendor isn't going to listen to NISO. They will listen to their customers who are complaining about their non-compliance with NISO standards. That's kind of a long way to answer a kind of simple question.
But, you know, so the. The question the deeper question is, how do we improve that linking? And again, that kind of goes to. Is this a DUI, is it something other than a DUI, is there a persistent identifier for things? There isn't persistent identifiers for everything. Be an open URL could be an open.
You are. Oh, there's lots of ways to link to content and. I'd be interested, Adam, if you are still on the line, if you're still here and are interested in this, either you can unmute yourself or type in the chat. What sort of content are we talking about? There might be a space here for a new identifier, there might be best practices about what those identifiers are and what the metadata is.
And also there could be best practices about. What's the landing page and how do we get people to that sort of thing? !invisible!, and another comment came in about the, Uh, the user interface for how to display things like PDF links and buttons. That is something very similar to the NISO seamless access project that we've been working on.
How do we get simplify the user experience? Because there is a lot of things that we could standardize. We can standardize the technology, we can standardize the metadata, we could standardize the exchange protocols and the authentication systems. But really, a lot of this comes down to the user experience. And so that's another thing that we can help with in terms of standardization.
Any other comments or questions? Another great point that simplifying the user experience doesn't necessarily mean one click gets you to the content, and there is a perception there and so.
You could have the perception that one click gets you to the content, it starts downloading the PDF immediately rather than getting to a landing page. I would defer to cross ref, right? I would suggest I think part of the problem is and again, I've not been it, maybe if there's someone from Krasnoff here on the line, they could talk about this.
The resolution process. Will initiate whatever is at the end of that. Link and that could you know, if it's a PDF and you start downloading a PDF file, an. But there are other things that could be resolved at the end of that, you are right, that DUI and you could envision a scenario where.
You might not want to start downloading the entire Sloan Digital Sky Survey. It could be massive, you might want to know more about what you're going to download before your set, you set your computer and your network to doing that thing. That might be one of the issues.
There is so resolution to the actual thing, whatever that digital object is. Isn't always as. Ideal, a solution, as one might think, once you start considering the implications of that. Ken, Ken drunk, wondering about idei and its working groups, I think. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if they've this issue at great depth, but it user interface and linking.
Connecting definitely are in the information discovering interchange topic committee area. And I see Jonathan is here, if Jonathan wants to jump in and add, defend or correct anything that I just said, I'm happy to hear it.
I don't think I missed the last couple of minutes, so I was thinking it sounded good, but, well, someone someone had questioned the need for the why. Why doesn't Dubai systems resolve to this thing? It could well, it's the recommendation of cross, for example, is that the DOJ should resolve to a landing page, not to say the PDF file itself.
And my response was, you don't know what's it to be actionable and. I think that plays a role in this, but if you have other thoughts or comments as to why resolving to the actual digital object, whatever that object might be, might not be ideal. Well, I think so, it has a lot to do with development over time, I think at the start, and that was very much the practice.
But as the metadata got richer and richer, publishers started to have different versions of articles. So the process is just one of many. Does the HTML version PDF, the medium version, others suddenly the idea of what is the object became a much broader thing. And then, of course, we got we started to look at data and resolving directly to data probably is not a good idea. And so the concept of, well, let's resolve to a page from which you can then go somewhere else depending on your need, began to arise.
And I think it's really AAA and a testament to the development of rich metadata more than anything else. And also changing behaviors. I mean, there are ways of going to the PDF. You can use the API to do that. So it's not. There are ways of getting if you wish to get around that, you can get around it programmatically.
But I think for humans arriving on a page, which has a rich set of metadata links to all the versions and buy versions, I don't necessarily just mean different instances, but also versions of the article. It might have been revised. There might have been a narrative. So it's not a single thing anymore. And it maybe it did start off that way 20 years ago. But I think today the concept of an article, it's.
It's much broader than that, and I think this is an approach at least to try and deal with that. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, absolutely. All right, Jonathan, thank you so much for jumping in. Last minute, quick questions. Appreciate it. And the person who asked this question at jumped in with some more detailed thoughts on this about deep linking and interoperability and somehow and how, you know, sometimes the authentication systems throw wrenches in here.
This is a great conversation to continue. And I'm going to suggest that we continue it on discourse. Because we have come to the end of our allotted time, so we this will draw this session to a close. I want to thank you all for your interest. Again, if you have any questions, any comments, any suggestions, we'd love to hear it. We love the interest.
We are super excited to talk about this and kind of leave it without too much process, et cetera. But if you have any questions, comments, please reach out. Happy to hear we're in gather town or in discourse. We are all around. We are all around. So thank you very much for this session to a close. Thank you, netty. Appreciate it.
And thank you all. Thanks, everybody. Reconvene with jeopardy at 630 Eastern time. So about four hours from now. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Bye bye. Bye by.
Segment:0 .
All right, that's a good group of people coming over. I hope you all enjoyed that introduction tonight. So thank you, Nettie, for taking the time leading us through. And I should publicly and acknowledge to tonetti that I, I. Unfortunately, bumped to her sooner than we had planned in that presentation, so.
Of we certainly welcome any comments, questions, any conversation topics, anything that wasn't clear. There was a question that came in during the session. And I'm going to use it to. Kind of take a couple different angles on. Addressing the topic, so someone and I posted this in the chat, someone commented about the proliferation of remote access and how deep linking is or isn't adopted or implemented by publishers and service providers are.
So researchers will go, they'll find they'll search for content, they'll find the right content that they're interested in those save the link, sign in, et cetera, but that link might not get them to the specific content page that they've requested. And when they have to go back to it, they have to kind of navigate through that whole process again.
There are a couple of things at work here, and I'm going to touch on a few of them as potential areas where standardization can apply and. Part of this, you know, obviously there is the know, let's link and save to a particular page, whatever, in a process that is. So you might be using a bookmarking software or a citation management software.
That's one set of standards. Another set of standards related to this is the metadata and the requirements that publishers and particularly crossroads, have developed about resolution. So it is cross ref's recommendation that you not link directly to the DUI should not resolve specifically to the PDF, it should resolve to a landing page that could have the full text, but it shouldn't resolve to file a PDF file, which will start downloading automatically.
It should provide a landing page where people can choose to download that file. So part of that is the establishment of the appropriate metadata, part of that problem is the implementation of that. So there are many aspects at work here, right? So the third element of this is the adoption question, right?
So having good quality structure, the structure of the identifier, the structure of the metadata that can be standardized for data that has been, you can then overlay business practices, recommended practices about what that metadata should include and cross in this particular case, Congress has done that. And then the third element of this change is the adoption of that best practice, which is.
NISO does all of those things right, we create the specification, we work with the community to define that specification. We also work with the community to define best practices. So, for example, we have the Jets standard. We also have Jets for our Jets for reuse, which are, you know, not necessarily. This is what the tag is. But you could use the tags in a variety of different ways.
And here's the best way to do so. And we have that set up as a recommended practice. And then finally, that issue is getting people to adopt it, getting people to apply it, and this is in part something that we can do through education, but it's also something that we need the community to do as well, to say, hey, there is a standard there is instructions on how to use the standard.
Are you doing it properly? Let's point people to those best practices, because to be perfectly honest, a vendor isn't going to listen to NISO. They will listen to their customers who are complaining about their non-compliance with NISO standards. That's kind of a long way to answer a kind of simple question.
But, you know, so the. The question the deeper question is, how do we improve that linking? And again, that kind of goes to. Is this a DUI, is it something other than a DUI, is there a persistent identifier for things? There isn't persistent identifiers for everything. Be an open URL could be an open.
You are. Oh, there's lots of ways to link to content and. I'd be interested, Adam, if you are still on the line, if you're still here and are interested in this, either you can unmute yourself or type in the chat. What sort of content are we talking about? There might be a space here for a new identifier, there might be best practices about what those identifiers are and what the metadata is.
And also there could be best practices about. What's the landing page and how do we get people to that sort of thing? !invisible!, and another comment came in about the, Uh, the user interface for how to display things like PDF links and buttons. That is something very similar to the NISO seamless access project that we've been working on.
How do we get simplify the user experience? Because there is a lot of things that we could standardize. We can standardize the technology, we can standardize the metadata, we could standardize the exchange protocols and the authentication systems. But really, a lot of this comes down to the user experience. And so that's another thing that we can help with in terms of standardization.
Any other comments or questions? Another great point that simplifying the user experience doesn't necessarily mean one click gets you to the content, and there is a perception there and so.
You could have the perception that one click gets you to the content, it starts downloading the PDF immediately rather than getting to a landing page. I would defer to cross ref, right? I would suggest I think part of the problem is and again, I've not been it, maybe if there's someone from Krasnoff here on the line, they could talk about this.
The resolution process. Will initiate whatever is at the end of that. Link and that could you know, if it's a PDF and you start downloading a PDF file, an. But there are other things that could be resolved at the end of that, you are right, that DUI and you could envision a scenario where.
You might not want to start downloading the entire Sloan Digital Sky Survey. It could be massive, you might want to know more about what you're going to download before your set, you set your computer and your network to doing that thing. That might be one of the issues.
There is so resolution to the actual thing, whatever that digital object is. Isn't always as. Ideal, a solution, as one might think, once you start considering the implications of that. Ken, Ken drunk, wondering about idei and its working groups, I think. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if they've this issue at great depth, but it user interface and linking.
Connecting definitely are in the information discovering interchange topic committee area. And I see Jonathan is here, if Jonathan wants to jump in and add, defend or correct anything that I just said, I'm happy to hear it.
I don't think I missed the last couple of minutes, so I was thinking it sounded good, but, well, someone someone had questioned the need for the why. Why doesn't Dubai systems resolve to this thing? It could well, it's the recommendation of cross, for example, is that the DOJ should resolve to a landing page, not to say the PDF file itself.
And my response was, you don't know what's it to be actionable and. I think that plays a role in this, but if you have other thoughts or comments as to why resolving to the actual digital object, whatever that object might be, might not be ideal. Well, I think so, it has a lot to do with development over time, I think at the start, and that was very much the practice.
But as the metadata got richer and richer, publishers started to have different versions of articles. So the process is just one of many. Does the HTML version PDF, the medium version, others suddenly the idea of what is the object became a much broader thing. And then, of course, we got we started to look at data and resolving directly to data probably is not a good idea. And so the concept of, well, let's resolve to a page from which you can then go somewhere else depending on your need, began to arise.
And I think it's really AAA and a testament to the development of rich metadata more than anything else. And also changing behaviors. I mean, there are ways of going to the PDF. You can use the API to do that. So it's not. There are ways of getting if you wish to get around that, you can get around it programmatically.
But I think for humans arriving on a page, which has a rich set of metadata links to all the versions and buy versions, I don't necessarily just mean different instances, but also versions of the article. It might have been revised. There might have been a narrative. So it's not a single thing anymore. And it maybe it did start off that way 20 years ago. But I think today the concept of an article, it's.
It's much broader than that, and I think this is an approach at least to try and deal with that. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, absolutely. All right, Jonathan, thank you so much for jumping in. Last minute, quick questions. Appreciate it. And the person who asked this question at jumped in with some more detailed thoughts on this about deep linking and interoperability and somehow and how, you know, sometimes the authentication systems throw wrenches in here.
This is a great conversation to continue. And I'm going to suggest that we continue it on discourse. Because we have come to the end of our allotted time, so we this will draw this session to a close. I want to thank you all for your interest. Again, if you have any questions, any comments, any suggestions, we'd love to hear it. We love the interest.
We are super excited to talk about this and kind of leave it without too much process, et cetera. But if you have any questions, comments, please reach out. Happy to hear we're in gather town or in discourse. We are all around. We are all around. So thank you very much for this session to a close. Thank you, netty. Appreciate it.
And thank you all. Thanks, everybody. Reconvene with jeopardy at 630 Eastern time. So about four hours from now. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Bye bye. Bye by.
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